Curse

gg romu · Jan 07, 2015, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Pc for crysta q8 gold Max dmg 14 vhexed and q8 Max dmg gold 13 % With enchant

Pleikki · Jan 07, 2015, 08:22 PM // 20:22

the hex one maybe 70-80a tops imo

Ench one should go more then that maybe 150a?

Just wildesst guesses, could be totally wrong, theyre worth wahtever someone wants pay for em.. could be less or more

Surge goes pre · Jan 07, 2015, 08:55 PM // 20:55

There is a hexed one just like that which has been going around. Currently I think it has a b/o of like 205a which is stupid high. Before that it sold for 95a which I still think was stupid high honestly.

13% ench maybe 100-150a.

I personally think the 14 vs hexed should be like 70a tops.

ABOVE WAS MY FIRST THOUGHTS ON THIS.

I have thought about this more. Here is my new PC. This is the valid one.

13%ench q8 - 50a.
14%vs Hexed q8 - 25a.

These prices are so inflated. The more I think about it. The more I agree with Sunstrike.

superraptors · Jan 07, 2015, 09:34 PM // 21:34

so surprised what people actually pay for proper junk these days.

none the less its still a req8 gold crysta.

the hex one is worth like 1000e tops and thats pretty absurd imo. ofc people will probably pay more to make a point.

Ench one on the other hand is actually prenerfed and has a more desireable mod, should be able to fetch 1750e-2500e atleast imo.

expugnare · Jan 07, 2015, 09:56 PM // 21:56

1000e tops? Are you joking. It been sold multiple times for way more than that.

The Ench one is way more than 2500e too. At least 100-150a.

Prices have changed, market has changed. You have to adapt.

The Mountain · Jan 07, 2015, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I think some of the pc problem here is because we really have two values: one for people who believe they can profit from flipping the item and one for people who will pay a price to own it forever.

Personally, I don't know of many collector's who'd truly want to own the hexed crys forever at a price much above the number SR identified. Before this hexed monstrosity (I feel justified using this term having owned its twin before and literally tossing it into a trade as a freebie since I'd paid 70e for it...and was sick of looking at the terrible stats) was flipped a few times recently, I'd have put it's price at 500-750e in this market. At that time, I would have valued the 13(ench) at double to triple that.

Surge goes pre · Jan 08, 2015, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mountain

I think some of the pc problem here is because we really have two values: one for people who believe they can profit from flipping the item and one for people who will pay a price to own it forever.

Personally, I don't know of many collector's who'd truly want to own the hexed crys forever at a price much above the number SR identified. Before this hexed monstrosity (I feel justified using this term having owned its twin before and literally tossing it into a trade as a freebie since I'd paid 70e for it...and was sick of looking at the terrible stats) was flipped a few times recently, I'd have put it's price at 500-750e in this market. At that time, I would have valued the 13(ench) at double to triple that.

I completely agree.

I think the trader who owns the 14%vs hexed q8 cryst thought he could flip it and is going to be keeping it forever. =P

expugnare · Jan 08, 2015, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Let's be real here--obviously that's what the guy is asking about. I think the assessments above, high priced as they might be, are very honest assessments given the state of the market.

If he sells that for 1000e (even if its worth that much in some people's eyes) he is losing out on an emormous amount of money. As price-checkers I think we are obligated not only to ascertain what we personally think an item is worth, but also what an expected value of that item on the market could be. Would I pay 1000+ ecto for that item? F**K no. But that doesn't mean I'm going to give him a price check that is out of date and inaccurate given the state of the market right now because I know what it is (or was, I should say) "actually" worth.

Finally, let's remember (as Max is always quick to remind me) that items are worth simply what people will pay for them. We have evidence that the item is at least worth 80a, because that's what it was sold for last. Pricing it at a value significantly lower than that is disingenuous because it already is worth at least much since someone bought it for that.

Yes the prices are inflated. That doesn't mean that their price is less than that. If someone told me five years ago that a Q8 +5e sword that wasn't a Katana or Shinobi was worth 1000e, I would have laughed in their faces. Now try to find me one that's much cheaper than that?

Yuko

EDIT:

As an addendum, I'm going to add this post from a few years ago.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/r...970&highlight=

For some context: After I bought my Q9 20 HCT / +5e^50 Fire Wayward Wand (one of my most prized possessions, and maybe my favorite item in my entire collection), I wanted to know if I got a decent deal on it. Being relatively new to the collecting scene at that point, I posted it on Guru Price Check, hoping to find some guidance and clarity. I wont ever forget that thread because it was the moment I lost faith in the price check forum. Superraptors (who is posting in this thread and the reason I bring it up) and some other people pced my wand. At 100k.

Let's think about that for a second. One Hundred Thousand gold. For a perfect Q9 Fire Wayward Wand. Think about how many perfect Canthan wands, let alone Waywards, that you have seen in Guild Wars. Think about how many have stats like that.

I was (obviously) devastated. I went from thinking I had purchased an amazing, god-tier item for a good price to thinking I had overpayed by a factor of over 15x. Later I realized that the worth of that item is far more than 100k. Value is not dictated by how much someone else thinks it was worth, but by how much I am willing to pay. But, at the time I was really angry. Maybe he actually thought the item was worth 100k. I remembered I payed something like 150e for it. And you know what? I would still do so today. Moreover, I'm sure there are lots of people out there who would too.

My point is this--lots of people can have opinions about what the "right" price of an item is. To Superraptors and SPAMADAN my Wayward was worth 100k. To Ikki and Salva, it was worth more like 75e. That, at the time, was a difference of 7x. To me and the person I bought it from, it was worth 150e, and because I payed that much for it, that's what it's worth. I've had (before I custo'd all my items) people offer me 500e+ for it too. At the end of the day the value of an item is not what any one person "thinks" that item is worth. All that matters is what people will and have payed for it. That sword is worth more than 1000e because simply put numerous people have payed more than 1000e for it.

Surge goes pre · Jan 08, 2015, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by expugnare

Let's be real here--obviously that's what the guy is asking about. I think the assessments above, high priced as they might be, are very honest assessments given the state of the market.

If he sells that for 1000e (even if its worth that much in some people's eyes) he is losing out on an emormous amount of money. As price-checkers I think we are obligated not only to ascertain what we personally think an item is worth, but also what an expected value of that item on the market could be. Would I pay 1000+ ecto for that item? F**K no. But that doesn't mean I'm going to give him a price check that is out of date and inaccurate given the state of the market right now because I know what it is (or was, I should say) "actually" worth.

Finally, let's remember (as Max is always quick to remind me) that items are worth simply what people will pay for them. We have evidence that the item is at least worth 80a, because that's what it was sold for last. Pricing it at a value significantly lower than that is disingenuous because it already is worth at least much since someone bought it for that.

Yes the prices are inflated. That doesn't mean that their price is less than that. If someone told me five years ago that a Q8 +5e sword that wasn't a Katana or Shinobi was worth 1000e, I would have laughed in their faces. Now try to find me one that's much cheaper than that?

Yuko

Thanks for the thoughts. The only thing I would add is that the evidence that the sword is worth at least 80a is from the guy that is now trying to sell it. Not a 3rd party. No one else even bidded close to that I don't think.

superraptors · Jan 08, 2015, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Do you realize how long ago 2011 was? Items weren't terribly inflated till the phase where everyone wanted a +5e req8 sword because certain people were hoarding them. from then on EVERY single item with a shit mod that was considered 'OS' was inflated, that includes your wand (1/3rd garbage and quite useless tbh). Waywards aren't rare, they are scarce that's it, also its because nobody does urgoz/deep.

This Crysta would have been worth about 150-200e tops back in 2011 and maybe triple for the ench.

The only way this sword would get 150 arms is if a gold buyer read this thread and automatically thought it was worth that much, then ofc he will buy it, and ill say this:
let them have it, they won't ever be able to resell that to any legit player, in which they will try to do so within a week.

By overpricing this all you are doing is contributing to the inflation of more horrible/junk items that people will try to sell for a profit.

i was being generous with a 1000e pc, i would have gone with mountains pc but ofc knew there will be some butthurt people over it.

expugnare · Jan 08, 2015, 05:38 PM // 17:38

My point, Superraptors, isn't necessarily that your PC was wrong (which it was). My point is that as price checkers our job isn't to condescendingly assess an item's "real" value or utility.

Beauty, practicality etc. are all in the eye of the beholder. Our job is to reasonably assess the value of that item at the market currently. The reason we must do this is because trading and collecting is very much a personal game for people. It is hard to measure any objective value because to some people certain items are worth more than others. My wand was a good example because there was a huge disparity in the price check (2x 100k PCs, 2x 50-75e PCs). What this shows is that just because you don't personally agree with someone evaluation of the worth, value or utility of an item that doesn't mean it is not worth that much. Given the state of the market at the time I bought that item it was certainly worth a shitload more than 100k. Same goes for the current state of the market in regards to the crysta in question. If people are paying more than 1000e for it (and they are) then it is definitely worth more than 1000e. Saying 250-750e is wrong and borderline disingenuous if you have affirmative knowledge that it has and will be sold for more. It doesn't particularly matter that this is the result of hoarding or inflation. As a game like this gets older things are going to go up and down in price based on interest. Whether that interest is artificial doesn't matter. A Q9 Fire BDS sells for 500-700e easily right now. I have sold one for 800e. Is it fair for me to value it at 100e because it was worth that a year or two ago? Or because it's a shitty, common, inscr item? No-- this would simply be wrong and misleading.

Cheers,

Yuko

The Mountain · Jan 08, 2015, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by expugnare

As price-checkers I think we are obligated not only to ascertain what we personally think an item is worth, but also what an expected value of that item on the market could be. Would I pay 1000+ ecto for that item? F**K no. But that doesn't mean I'm going to give him a price check that is out of date and inaccurate given the state of the market right now because I know what it is (or was, I should say) "actually" worth.

Do we not PC for both buyers and sellers? If I owned it now, I might ask for some silly number and say it had sold for a similarly-tho-slightly-less silly number a couple times in the recent past.

If I were considering it as a piece to buy (or had a friend ask me to PC it, which has happened a few times in the past weeks), I would tell them they should not pay more than a few stacks for it if they wanted to make any sort of profit a few months from now. If they considered flipping it instantly to another person who might have hopes to flip it for profit (as happens frequently with these "rarish" items with terrible mods), then I'd tell them they were foolish and to follow whatever PC they desired.

superraptors · Jan 08, 2015, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Please don't use terrible examples to convey your point, you are just making yourself look like a fool.
Yes a bds is worth that much because its scarce and in demand not because its rare.

Do you really believe this sword is in DEMAND, the only redeeming quality for this sword is its skin and req. I based my pc's on various factors, inherent, req, color, skin, demand and supply of what the majority of the community would most likely be interested in, its a price check, its not accurate its an estimate and its far more accurate than your 150arms PC.

You are being biased in your PC's, no the item(BDS) is not worth 100e because its a shitty, common and inscriptable item, that is a terrible example. It is worth 500-700e because that's what the MAJORITY would/is paying for it.

Tell me do you think the MAJORITY would pay that price? 150 arms? No.

Prove me wrong and go buy it for over 1000e, until then you are wrong and i am right.

spinkyuk · Jan 08, 2015, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Don't no what all the fuss is about surge's pc is about spot on :-)

You want class, you pay up

expugnare · Jan 08, 2015, 10:35 PM // 22:35

The problem is collecting isn't a "majority" game. It's all about one or two interested buyers, as the recent bid war fiascos (if you can even call them that) have elucidated. We have to look at what it (or similar items) have recently been bought or sold for.

If we look at the history of this Q8 Crysta (hexed), we can see that in the last couple months it has changed owners at least twice.

I took this screen of the item in Nov. Since then it has been traded at least twice. I know of the owner who had it after this person I'm trading with, and then whomever owns it now.

Both times were definitely a lot more than 1000e. Of course we have nothing more than the word of the sellers to go on, but in this case, that's more than enough. The market is not flooded with Q8 Crystas. Most of the ones that exist are either custo'd, on dead accounts, or banned into oblivion.

This is very much a "status" item, and something the likes of which E-Bay ecto/armbrace people will be champing at the bit in order to buy. We have evidence of this being true because this item has been sold for over 1000e at least on one occasion.

It doesn't (especially in the collector's game) matter what the majority is willing to pay for the item. It matters what the one guy who wants it is willing to pay. After that, the value of the item is changed relative to the amount of interest in that item and how much other people want it.

If we know the item has been sold for 1000e multiple times then bashing your head against a wall and insisting its only worth a few stacks is just plain wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

Prove me wrong and go buy it for over 1000e, until then you are wrong and i am right.

Also, at least try to be civil, at least on a public forum. Calling someone a fool, challenging people pointlessly and USING ALL CAPS doesn't make you right; nor does it make your argument better. It merely makes you look childish.

Best,

Yuko

superraptors · Jan 09, 2015, 01:46 AM // 01:46

No this section of the forum is to pc stuff as to what the general population would even consider paying for it, 1 person paying 150a doesnt make that item worth 150a.

Do you get the point? or are you absolutely thick in the skull?

a 1 off transaction doesn't make a sword worth that much, infact the more times it gets flipped the more the value drops exponentially, its a fact. and this sword is not worth as much as you think, you are one deluded individual.

As i said go ahead and prove me wrong, go buy it for over 1000e, until then you are wrong, Present does not equal the past. Get over it.

Surge goes pre · Jan 09, 2015, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinkyuk

Don't no what all the fuss is about surge's pc is about spot on :-)

You want class, you pay up

Which one do you like? The unbold or bold? The bold is the one I think is accurate the more I think about it.